Why Intimacy Feels Different After 40

In this episode, I speak with Elana Auerbach, author of The Sure Thing: A Pleasure Practice to Revive the Spark, about intimacy, desire, shame, body confidence, communication, and reconnecting with yourself in midlife.

Elana shares how a simple weekly practice helped transform her marriage after years of frustration, resentment, and emotional distance. But this conversation goes far beyond physical intimacy. It is about learning what you want, understanding how desire can change, feeling more comfortable in your body, and giving yourself permission to stop disappearing from your own life.

Elana and I also discuss spontaneous desire, responsive desire, body confidence after 40, self-love, and how couples can begin honest conversations when intimacy has changed.

Please note: This episode includes mature topics around intimacy, pleasure, and relationships and may not be suitable for younger listeners.

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Until then, keep dreaming big, take care of yourself, and remember you are beautiful, strong, and capable of creating the best version of yourself.

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Transcript

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Before we jump in, a quick note. Today's conversation includes mature topic around intimacy, pleasure and relationships. So it may not be suitable for young viewers or listeners. If little ears are nearby, now might be a good time to pop in some headphones. What if the spark in a long relationship isn't actually gone, it's just head hasn't been given a real place to return. Today I'm speaking with Elena Auerbach, author of the sure Thing, A Pleasure Practice to revive that spark. And this conversation is honest, eye openening and so much deeper than you might expect. We're talking about intimacy, desire, shame, self acceptance, communication, and what it really looks like to reconnect with yourself and with your partner in midlife. Elana shares how a simple weekly practice helped transform her marriage after years of frustration, resentment and emotional distance. But what I love the most is that this isn't just about sex. It is about learning what you want, feeling at home in your body, and giving yourself permission to stop disappearing from your own life. So if you ever wondered whether connection can be rebuilt, whether desire can shift in midlife, or whether pleasure is something you can actually learn, this conversation is for you. Elana Auerbach. Welcome to Create the Best Me. This is an honor and a pleasure. Pleasure to have you on the show. Oh, well, similar, similar sensation over here. So happy to be with you, Carmen. And I am so excited about today's conversation because I think it's something that even though I am a woman in midlife, I'm 53. This is the first time I've ever admitted my age. This is a topic some, you know, someone like me may not feel comfortable talking about. And it is what you've covered in your beautiful book sure Thing. And so we are going to talk about all the beautiful treasures that you have in this book. Yay. Well, I'm 57, Carmen, so I got you by four years. Yes. So first of all, let's talk about because people might look at this and say the sure thing. The sure thing. What? Pleasure, practice? What does, what does this all mean? What does the sure thing stand for? What does it mean? Well, when you hear the sure thing, it's like it's a sure thing, right? It's, you know, it's going to happen. Whatever it is, it's reliable. It's you, you know, it's a done deal, It's a sure thing. So it is turns out for this practice, it's an acronym, so it stands for Shabbat Unification ritual. So which is a practice that I came up with with a friend of mine in 2018 who, she was a single mom at the time and wanted a Sabbath consort. Shabbat is the. The Jewish Sabbath happens on Saturdays every. Every week. And I learned when I was a teenager that you get a double mitzvah, which means a mitzvah is a good deed in Hebrew, and you get two of them if you have sex on the Sabbath. So we were right. We love the sex positivity of this perspective of the Jewish tradition. And so my friend wanted to get her double mitzvah. She wanted someone to explore sensuality with on Shabbat. And so we were talking, I said, well, I want that too. That sounds fantastic. And so it occurred to me, it's like, oh, it's a sure thing. A Shabbat unification ritual. So that's when we invented this weekly practice. However, by that point, our kid was 11 years old and we had had probably about a decade at that of struggle with my spouse and I, we've been together for over 20 years and we have different desire levels like all couples, and the responsibilities of raising a child, of all the different, of, of having a household, maintaining everything, really, our intimacy and our sex life took a backseat. And so because there was. And over the course of that 10 years, there was all of this built up gunk between us. Resentments, feelings of abandonment, feelings of rejection, really, on both sides of, of in our relationship. And so even though it was February 2018 when we invented this practice, my friend and I, it wouldn't be until December 2020, almost two years later, I know that I, that I. Because every time I thought to invite him into this practice and let's try this, I feel like, well, he doesn't deserve it or he. And who's the one who's missing out? Me, clearly. Finally, I committed to a friend in early December that by winter solstice, the longest night of the year in the Northern hemisphere, I would invite my spouse into this practice. And sure enough, I did. And I asked him, after we made love, our. Our son had a drum lesson on Saturdays at. At that time. And, and so I invited him in, we made love. And after that, in the afterglow, I said, hey, baby, how would you like to deepen an intimacy, connection and pleasure every week on Saturdays, he's like, sounds great, sugar. And so then we started this practice. And I had no idea, Carmen. I. I was just thought, okay, we've tried everything, why not try this? And so then the next Saturday, when our kid was at his drum lesson, that was our time that was our sure thing. And it wasn't about having sex or orgasms. However, rest assured, that often happens. And it wasn't goal oriented. The goal was to turn towards each other and deepen in intimacy, pleasure and connection. And in a matter of weeks with, we had this rhythm, this reliability. And so all of that built up gunk of over a decade, it disappeared. It was no longer. I had no idea how much psychic space, how much emotional space it was taking up in my body, in my mind, because now I didn't have to think about it. It wasn't. Are we going to. Is he going to get the signal? Am I going to get the signal? All these questions, all this wondering, all this resentment and frustration. We now had this reliable, no, we've agreed, we have a practice. So on Saturdays that's when we're going to turn towards each other and cultivate intimacy. And what I realized, I mean, it was astonishing and had been continues to be such a miracle in my life that about six months into our weekly practice, after a sure thing, it dawned on me that I needed to share this with other people because I knew that we had many friends, we had many people who I had been working with, had the same struggle. And so I wanted to offer this, really share the love with, with everybody. So that's why I wrote the book. And I think that what you and your husband felt during that period is something that we all feel. We all, you know, our priority becomes our children, our priority becomes our careers, our obligations that we have. And unfortunately, the person that we said we were going to spend the rest of our life with, you know, yeah, well, he lays down in bed with me every night and yeah, we sit on the couch every night, you know, watch whatever. You know, we think that that is the connection. Those little moments, you know, we text, we talked, those are the, those are the moments that, that are of connection, but they truly are not. And you are right, I think a lot of us do have that frustration deep down inside of us or these stories that we tell ourselves as to why we feel the way we feel. Maybe rejected by our spouse because that connection we're not receiving, that connection that we're longing for. Yeah, it happens. Exactly. Yes, it happens. And I feel like it's absolutely normal to. Because no one tells us we need to practice intimacy. They don't tell you. They say, I remember before I got married, you know, communicate, don't go to bed angry at each other. Communication skills, all kinds of ways that we need to get along, how to manage the household, all of that, but not about intimacy. And I feel like this is an intimacy like anything. If you practice, you're going to get better at it. If we want to get better at something, what do we do? We hire a coach or we hire a teacher, or we, we make sure that we do it on a regular basis so we can build that muscle and, and get better at something. Except we think intimacy with our beloved is just because it's so hot and effortless at the beginning of the relationship, that that's supposed to last. Somehow it's supposed to last and it doesn't. And there are so many of us who are suffering silently because we think it's, you know, everybody puts out their best face on social media, right? Or their, or their one vacation a year when the couple is having a fabulous time together. And so that's what's put out in public. When really so many, almost all, everybody I have spoken with has this issue. There are very, very, very few couples who over the course of time, maintain that intimacy because we don't know how. Until now. Until now. What I loved about your book was that you opened my eyes because I always thought that if you're with the right person, they know exactly how to get you to that point to where that intimate connection happens. But in your book, you talk about diving deep to inside yourself and discovering, when did my body become something to either be ashamed of or sex becomes something that it's taboo. We don't talk about it. You know, it's going back to that and sort of like re. Educating yourself, reteaching yourself a new way of looking at yourself or, or how you view things and like, you know, just building from that. Yeah, yeah, I, I, like you mentioned there's, there's a whole chapter on shame and how shame is the, the elephant in the bedroom. Whether most of us don't realize that and even if we feel really expressed, what I found out in practicing the sure thing is this whole part of me that had been really repressed. I call her my wild, sensual self. Her name is Vivacious Viv. And I attest that all of us have a wild, sensual self inside. And most of us haven't given this part the freedom for full expression until now if you choose to have a weekly practice. And so we are, I call it the puritanical patriarchy, the society we live in. And so we are shamed, certainly as women. Sex, you know, the puritans. Sex is for procreation. And that's it. Work and, you know, get to the afterlife, kind of. And, and then the patriarchy is, you know, weaponizes. Shame weaponizes. It is misogynistic to begin with. Right. And then I know we are in midlife. Most likely a lot of your listeners are in midlife. So we're also as women dealing with how a patriarchal woman hating society, let's just name it, you know, what, what it is that, you know, as we age and it wants us to disappear, it wants us to try to become invisible. And I'm so grateful for our generation that's really bringing forward menopause. Let's talk about it. Let's center it, let's it. It's something fabulous. I just watched a film called Wise Women that addresses the evolution of our species that required women to live to, to be postmenopausal, to be menopausal, so that they could be the visionaries, so that. Not only that, so they could tend to the village and not necessarily only tend to the grandchildren, but really come together and be the wise women who would guide, guide the leaders who would have the final say. And there's evidence in ancient cultures that it wasn't that it was the flip where the, you know, matriarchy, where the women were over the men and the men were denigrated. No, it was that we were honoring community. That's what matriarchy centers, community centers. What's going to be best for the children, what's going to be best for the next generations. And so I feel like as we reclaim and own our sensuality, whatever age you are, if you're 20, if you're 70, there is sensuality in there, there is shakti, there is energy that will fuel your creativity, your self expression, whether or not you explore it in the sexual realm. I love sex. And so I explored in that realm. And this energy that gets cultivated from attuning to the wild sensual self to the, the energy at the base of our spine in our second chakra, I'm kind of holding my belly and because that's where the sexual sensual center is, that's also our womb. So if we, we choose to procreate and grow a human, that's where we do it as well as all of our creative energy is in there. So any creative project, any vision, that's where it's going to come from. Is, is this sacred center of sensuality, sexuality and creativity. Yeah. Another thing that you brought up in the book that, that opened my eyes because I had a lot of aha moments. I'm just going to be open about that, had a lot of aha moments is that, you know, I love this. I love this. And I know that one of your friends said this. You are responsible for your own pleasure. And I'm like, okay, well, you know what? You're kind of responsible for your own success. You're kind of responsible for your own happiness. You know, I'm like, you could take that to the next level. But when I heard that, I'm like, yeah, you know, she's right. But how am I supposed to communicate to my husband what pleasure means like to me what pleasure feels like to me if I don't know anything about my own pleasure? And you dove deep into that in the book about discovering, you know, once you kind of identified where the shame is coming from. Now let's explore where pleasure is hidden. And I say hidden because I don't know where it's at. That's right. It's true. So I. So like you said, a friend and I were on a hike and she was talking about being 100% responsible for your pleasure. And that was same. It was like this awakening moment where there was no one to blame, including ourselves. It's okay. I'm responsible. I am a sovereign being in my self authority. And I can have as much pleasure in this body temple. This is my body temple. So I get to say what happens and I get to learn and discover what feels good, what I like, what I fantasize about. And if you don't know what that is, that is the perfect place to start in the. I don't know. I don't know. And what I can tell you is that in 20 years that I've been exploring orgasm and pleasure over 20 years now, I think it's like 23 years. However long it's been, it is infinite. It is. It is an infinite realm. There are no edges. There are edges. We feel like they're edges. And if we soften, breathe and exhale, we can open to another edge. And so it's really about softening those edges and finding and discovering. And where do we discover? We go inside and we experiment with ourselves, explore with ourselves, and learn what it is that we like. Learn how to ask for what we want. And before we can ask for what we want, we have to know what we want. And so there's lots of exercises in the book. Because I was there 25 years ago in. In that place of. I. I don't know what I want. I don't know what I want. I. I knew I didn't want to Be married to my former spouse. That was very clear. But besides that, I don't know. I don't know. So I had a practice, and I would just ask myself throughout the day, when, what do I want to wear? I don't know. And. And eventually I would start to have answers. And I had to be willing to be in that uncomfortable place of the unknown of, I don't know, sometimes you may feel frustrated or want to, oh, just forget about it. And if you persevere and just continue, just stay in that discomfort for a little while longer, take a few more breaths, and something will come up. Maybe I just want to wear something red today. And so then you look in your closet. Okay. Something red. What do I want to have for breakfast? Just simple things. And so we can start to develop this muscle of knowing what I want. And then once we know what we want, we then ask. We can begin to ask for what we want. And as you know, in the book, there's lots of different exercises that think. Take you through all of this, asking for what we want in the mundane arena of having your spouse wash the dishes or rub your back and then moving it into the bedroom. And so all sorts of support in, in the book to really get us to a place where we feel comfortable and we feel inspired and ready and willing to ask for exactly what we want. Because I feel like this is so crucial, Carmen, at this moment, when so much chaos is going on in our world, that the more we as women, and especially women in midlife, kind of really own our wisdom and own our knowing and have the capacity to. To speak clearly what we see from the heart and ask for what we want in our communities, for our families, for our children, for our future generations, that is going to be. That is what is going to help us move into a world where everyone is thriving, where the sanctity of all life is honored and so forth. Yeah. And I. And I think that, that, you know, especially when we reach midlife, when we, when we reach midlife, some of us become empty nesters. Our careers have reached a certain point. And so I think we. I think we have a little bit more time in our hands on, on our hands. And we have this moment of reflection and we start asking ourselves, what do I want? And a lot of us don't know what we want because we have, you know, we have danced to someone else's drum. You know, our parents or somebody told us, or society has told us, you know, you. This is what you do. You go to school, you go to College, you do this, this, and you marry this person and you have children and whatnot. And you just, you know, you just do A, B, C and D. And so, you know, now we're in midlife, Our hormones are fluctuating, and when we're looking at pleasure, we're like. But there's a lot of complications that occur during this time. That pleasure is tough. So I want to make sure that we understand how potent languages, you know, our language creates reality. And so it may seem tough, and I would encourage it challenging. Right now it's changing. Pleasure changes in midlife. And what I've noticed is it continues to change. You know, my clitoris, for. For some time there, I thought it had disappeared. I couldn't feel anything. Zero. I'm like, honey, are you sure you're down there? What's going on? And now I feel more. Does it feel like I did when I was 40 years old? No, it doesn't. It feels different. But inside my, My yoni also feels different. Things feel different. Things are more sensitive and. And I want to encourage us to explore like a laboratory, like a pleasure laboratory, and find different erogenous zones that are not just our normal. What we think of, you know, maybe breasts and genitals, but, you know, third eye, the back of your neck. A lot of people say the mind is, is their hottest erogenous zone between your toes. So. So that's just finding pleasure and finding what turns you on specifically, not what turns anybody else on. If you have a partner, you may want to find out what turns them on. However, start with what turns you on, what has you, soften what has you. Maybe it's a bath for me. I love hot water. Hot water and like a groovy vibe that I can dance to. Those are two of my favorite things. Along with scent, each of us has things that really have us return deeply into our bodies and soften and open. And so I encourage each of us to find what that is, because from that place. And then you start exploring different touch, you know, on your arm, like even right now, just touch your arm. How can you touch your, your, your, your hand while you're feeling the hand that's touching your other hand? How much pleasure can you create just in touching your hand? And then maybe breathe in and lift your pelvic floor. I call it a pee pump. You know, just woo. Just pump up a little and just see what happens. How does this change? Is it more pleasurable? Is it less pleasurable? Maybe lighten your stroke, Maybe have a firmer you know, touch and just explore, Explore. And instead of having some goal which a lot of us have been trained, I know I was to, you know, go over the edge. We're supposed to orgasm in a certain way, and that's the ultimate in intimacy and sexual connection is going over the edge. Well, what I've discovered is that there is no edge. You go over one edge and then we can sustain the pleasure and the orgasm and open, and then we find another edge, and then we go over the other edge. There's fast palpitations and then there's another opening and a gush and so on and so on. And so it can continue. You can play with the edge. Some people like to not go over the edge and just play and then pull back and. And are there different ways to bring yourself to that edge besides the traditional stroking of the genitals? I don't know. Maybe there is. You. You'll have to experiment and explore with yourself and your partner. I know that you, when you started writing this book, because I read it in the. Toward the end of the book that you had like, you did like a course or. Or had like a class. Did you. So you're working with, I'm assuming, women. Did any of these women ever tell you that maybe they were not born with that sexual drive? And so there's no way you're going to get me, because I remember you said that you, you know, you love intimacy, you know you love sex. Have you ever had any of these women who said, I've never liked sex, you know, it never was something that was important to me. There's no way you're going to awaken something that's never been there and suddenly become more like you or begin to fascinate about having sex. Absolutely, yes. Yes, yes. I've worked with people on the full spectrum. The spectrum of what's normal in sexual appetite is vast. And so if you feel like you're low desire person. Wonderful. That's wonderful. What was a game changer for me was to distinguish between spontaneous desire and responsive desire. Spontaneous desire. I always thought that's how sexual interludes happened. One person, you know, there's a welling up of lust and passion and, you know, you rip each other's clothes off and that's what happens. Well, that's what we're shown in Hollywood movies, and that's called spontaneous desire. Well, there's a whole nother type of desire most women, and you can have both at different times with different partners, different circumstances. Responsive desire is when desire Arises out of context. So you may be so. So this became a total game changer for our sure thing because often I wasn't in the mood, I didn't have the desire and I had committed to this practice. And once I found out about spontaneous desire, I knew, okay, great, all I need to do is turn towards my spouse. We may just go and lay on the bed and hold hands and breathe together and just notice. And all of a sudden I may get a flash of him kissing my neck. And so maybe I'll ask him to kiss my neck or maybe I'll, you know, roll over and start kissing him on, on the, the temple or something. But it'll, it'll arise out of the context because I feel safe with this person. I feel relaxed with this person. I'm starting to feel a little turned on with this person. so instead of so in responsive desire arises out of pleasure happening in that moment arises out of the context. Spontaneous desire arises when we're anticipating pleasure happening in the future. And so I hope that that will give many of the folks who have low desire, it's okay, just do something that feels pleasurable to you. And you don't have to begin with going, you know, having a goal of having sex every week with your partner or whatever. Start with an intention that is inspiring to you. And that's, that's how I encourage everyone to start. Their sure thing is to start with an intention and ours is deepen in intimacy, pleasure and connection with each other. And when my spouse isn't around, then I do that. I practice with myself. So you can have a solo practice as well with this. And so for those people with low desire and I have worked with, with many having a regular practice, they begin to blossom, open and discover things. And do they have more desire, they have more ability to feel pleasure in their body. They have more access to pleasure, to ecstasy, to. And that can be eating an apple. So when we really open this channel, because I really believe that it's a, it's a channel when we open this channel of awareness and it's multiple channels of awareness because we've got different senses that then we invite in experiences that enhance our lives in just the simple things of taking a breath, of brushing our teeth, of taking a bite of food and savoring that bite and, and how much pleasure can I. I am I willing to experience just from this simple bite of food with gratitude and appreciation and, and just. And, and the love. And it's miraculous what, what I've witnessed in myself and with others who, who I have worked with. So thank you for that question. Carmen. I feel like your book has really, it's not really so much, you know, it goes beyond pleasure, intimacy, pleasure. I feel like it goes into connecting with yourself, you know, really truly connecting with every fiber of your being and understanding yourself and caring for yourself, you know, doing that one thing that a lot of us tend to put in the back burner and that is our own self care. And once we can go back to our younger self, cuddle or hug that younger self, move that person along these different stages of. As you talked about different, different characters that you encountered within yourself, you suddenly become better for everyone else. Yeah, absolutely. And thank you for bringing this up, Carmen, because I feel like yes, it, this book was inspired because of a pleasure practice between me and my spouse that we've been doing for over five years. And it is really a guide to deepen in self love and unconditional acceptance of self. Because I know that when we love ourselves unconditionally, when we accept the parts of ourselves, and of course we are human beings, we have shadow aspects, we have light aspects, we are going to do things that we're going to have to add that we may be embarrassed and we may have to ask forgiveness for and so forth. Of course, of course it's not about perfection. It's accepting who we are exactly as we are and understanding that we are unique and incredible in exactly who we are. If we can allow ourselves to be. And as we allow ourselves to be and accept ourselves, the. The more we are available to love those around us, the more that love flows out and when we experience love. So if I'm like so appreciating you right now, Carmen, just loving you right now in this moment and appreciating your presence and your, your radiance, I feel that coming through me first. So I get to see it and feel it, experience it, and then offer it to you. So you could even say it's, it's. It's a self serving practice because the more I love another, my partner, my kids, my community, I'm the one who's getting to experience that first. And so that all comes though we have a wider funnel for that to be expressed when we can return to accepting ourselves unconditionally and falling in love with ourselves. And so I wrote the book also as Emmanuel, to fall madly in love with you. And I thought about how many of us feel uncomfortable naked, you know, how many of us feel uncomfortable naked because, oh, you know, I'm Too fat or I'm too skinny, or I have cellulite, or I have these stretch marks or whatnot. When I was reading your book, I thought, you know, that was a thought that. That was just something, you know, thoughts always come into my head when I'm learning things or. Or discovering things. And I thought there was something in there that you talked about being naked. And I thought, you know, how many times have I been at these beautiful resorts or, you know, Hawaii or whatnot? And I see these women that are beautiful bodies and they walk around with so much confidence. Then I see women that don't have the type of body that everyone would say, I want to have a body like hers, but yet they walk with the same confidence. And I've told my husband, I said, geez, I wish, you know, I'm not talking about the one that's got the knockout body. I'm talking about the one that most people would not want the body like her. I said, you know what? I wish I could walk like her. You know, she's wearing. She's wearing a bathing suit. She's strutting her stuff. She is comfortable in her skin. I want that. I want that. You deserve that, Carmen, and you can have that. And. And especially in midlife when our bodies are changing. Because, you know, maybe we did have that banging body when we were 25 and we were walking around like that. Maybe, maybe not. Maybe not. The point is our body right now as it is. How can we just love and accept it and feel good in it and feel pride in it? Because this is our one body that we get in this lifetime, so why not love it as it is? And. And the whole comparison that is one of the tools of the patriarchy is to pit women against each other, comparing, oh, her butte looks better than my butt, so now I have to be ashamed of my butt. And, you know, all the stuff that we do with each other instead of glorifying in, like, oh, my gosh, you've got such a hot ass. What a beautiful. What beautiful breasts you have, you know, And. And then we rise up, up together in glorifying in ourselves and each other's beauty instead of having to reach some, you know, idealized like you. Like you said, you know, super hot banging body. It's like, no, can I just love this body and accept this body? Starting with accepting exactly as it is. Exactly as it is. Because it's for me. It's for. It's for me, this body. You know, I was given this body. I. I don't know how this body came to be, but this is the one that I have. And so I'm going to tend it like it's a temple, because it really is. And so. And adorn it. And if you feel like you want to go out and you know, in your G string bikini and just, you know, show your stuff, then. And that's a goal for you to be able to feel really confident. No matter how many stretch marks or how big my butt is or whatever the size it is, then you can do that you by every day appreciating. And there are exercises in the book about what can I really appreciate about my body? Honestly, starting with what you can. Because you can inevitably right now find one thing that you can genuinely appreciate about your body and that's what you start with. And then we notice all the negative selft talk and. And know that we live in a culture, you may have grown up in a family. And we certainly live in a culture that is very demeaning towards women. I said misogynistic and I. I do mean that. So just recognize that we live in a culture that was that all the structures of our culture were designed without women included in the design and strategy. Okay? So let's recognize that. And let's recognize that all of the information we get from the media and even from education and so forth has a lot or even just a tinge of women hatred in it. And so recognizing that, it's like, wait a second. No, no, I'm not going to be brainwashed by that narrative because that narrative is designed to keep me repressed and suppressed and in a little box and keeping my mouth shut so then I don't disturb anything. And we're like, hell, no. We are here to be in our full alignment, in our full radiance and our full voice to influence and affect what's happening in our lives, in our families and in the world. Very true. Yeah. And it helps keep us from becoming invisible, you know, by. Because I. I've come to the point where, hey, this is all I got. This is all I got. This is what I was born with. It's been big, it's been small. I've been really bony. And then I am where I am. And I'm not going to continue to live in the sideline. I'm going to live in the moment and treasure every moment that I've been blessed with. What a beautiful way to live. What a beautiful way to live. I have a question to ask you. I was talking to a friend the other Day, I said, hey, I'm going to talk to Elena. And she has written a book. And I told her about your book. And, you know, she's. This friend of mine has been married for, I think over. Over 10 years, but she's been. This was her high school sweetheart. And she says, ask her if. Does she ever find that people change their pleasure desire or not desire, but the way intimacy is done between the couple, like, maybe in the beginning it was. It was crazy. It was wild, doing all kinds of stuff. And now, you know, one party has moved to a more gentler side and the other party hasn't quite gotten there. How, how do. How does, how does one party communicate to the other that the season has changed? With an open heart and in a. In a moment when you feel really centered and you feel like your partner is in a place of receptivity. And so here's the thing about change. And of course, throughout, we are always changing. We are constantly changing. And so is our sex life and sensual life in ourselves and with our partners. And, and so what's important is to be willing to talk about it, to share about it. And if you're open and it. There's. You have desires that are not being fulfilled currently in, in the relationship, being willing to be honest about that and know that there is a path forward, that there is a way to fulfill the relationship. So if, if one person is, Is. Is not feeling, you know, doesn't have as much desire is what I, I hear you, you know, saying, and one person is really wanting more. So, and, and I have worked with couples like this, and what I encourage is to start with something that feels accessible. So there's a couple that I've worked with who, she was the one who was not really wanting it, okay. But her, her spouse was. And she said, well, why don't we start with hug? A hug every day. And so they, and so just to start to have a physical connection again. So they started with hugging every day. And at first, she was the one who was asking for it all the time. And I said, just be patient. Just, just see, you know, and about a week in, at the end of the day, he's like, wait a second, we haven't had our hug yet. So he started, and then two weeks, and he said, well, let's have, let's add a kiss. Are you open to adding a kiss every day? So then they add. They have a hug and then they have a kiss. And so they're starting. And they started every day. You know, my spouse And I, we started with our weekly practice. So you create the structure, whatever works for you. And what I recommend is communication. In that place, when you feel like you're open, you're soft for me, you know, after a bath, whatever it is for you, when you feel like you're not, you're going to be responsive instead of reactive because we don't know how the other person's going to respond. We just, if they react, we want to be able to de, escalate, right? And we want to be able to calm, calm down, calm things down and say maybe this wasn't the right time. Let's, you know, have a, have this conversation at a different time. What I know is that I have witnessed so many miracles in my own life and in people that I've worked with when they are willing to get out of the comfort zone and trust that something else does exist. You know, it's like, get off the couch, get, it's like, okay, we know what, it's comfortable, it's, it's enjoyable to watch a movie together or watch our show or whatever it is. And I know that when I have a choice to either watch the next episode of our show or have a sure thing with my partner, I don't always want to choose the sure thing because it feels like more effort. And I know that that effort will always be beneficial afterwards. I always am grateful and glad that I made that choice because I feel more alive, I feel more, I feel closer to my spouse, I feel more pleasure in my body. No matter what happens in our sure thing, there has never been once. It's like whenever you practice yoga or any kind of practice that you have that's beneficial to your life. I never finish a sure thing and think, oh, that was a waste of time. So it's the same when I meditate, I, I have a sitting meditation practice that I do every day. Even if I'm spacing out the entire time I'm sitting on the cushion, I never get up thinking that was a waste of time. So it's the same. It's. I, I would say to your friend to summon the courage, come into her heart and invite her, her spouse into a conversation, an open ended conversation to see where it goes and if they would like some guidance. The book has plenty of guidance of, you know, how to wit different kinds of questions, to ask different kinds of conversations, how to prepare yourself and, and all sorts of stuff. And that's what I loved, is that it was a guide. It was completely a guide, you know, and you also provided ideas that maybe some of us would have thought, I can't unhear that. I can't unread that. But, you know, maybe it was a little edgy, but it's an idea. You know, you have. You. You provided starting points for people to explore. Yeah, yeah. And no, if. If it's all based. The more we know ourselves, the more we can really discern our internal guidance system and what our body's telling us. Slow down enough to be able to listen to our bodies and discern what it is they're telling us. Then we know what's for us. You know, and it's like, oh, you might read something, and you're like, oh, oh. It's like, oh, that's interesting. Huh? Is. Is that because. Am I repelled by it? Does that feel. Is. Is. Is that me? Is that society? What's really true here? And the more we get to know ourselves, the more we'll be able to discern. It's like, yeah, no, that's just not for me. Okay, great. Move on. Move on to the next thing. Yeah, yeah, but I mean, it. It left, you know, it. It filled in all for. At least for me. Filled in all kinds of gaps that I would have never thought of. I'm so glad. So glad. I wanted to tell you, Carmen, that I am going to be having. Oh, well, I will be having ongoing classes. I did have a class last spring. And I will be working with couples online and otherwise. So, you know, for people to. Who want to start a practice, who want to be inspired by other people, who have a regular weekly. Sure thing practice. That's great. So with these practices that you are looking at putting together, would those be private practices between, like, let's say, for example, a couple, or is it more of a forum? It would be more of a group, but I do also work with couples individually. Okay, well, that's good, Elena, for the woman who is either listening or watching right now and says, sounds interesting. I want to get started, but I don't know. You know, this all sounds good. Where do I start? And how do I get my husband to buy in or my partner to buy in? What advice would you give them? Yeah, I would say, you know, start with what. What it feels like in your body. Start with buying the book, of course. Get the book. Thank you, Carmen. So start with buying the book. You can get the book wherever you. You like to get your books online, there's digital. I highly recommend getting the paperback because it is an interactive playbook. There are places for you to there prompts and places to draw and journal and all sorts of things. And if you prefer digital, it's also available in digital. So get the book. That will be a real grounding place that, that will seed a lot of inspiration for you and give you a lot of support and follow what's happening in your body and what it is that you're wanting and what it is that. That you're feeling and then share that with your partner. And you could do like I did, which was after we made love, and then invite your. Your partner into that kind of practice or whatever feels right for you and your partner. Maybe you both like to take a soak in the hot tub together or go for a walk and express from your heart what it is that you desire. And this is your partner who loves you and trust that, that, that this is one thing that I talk about in the book, that you are worth it. And once we really love ourselves and understand and really get that we are deserving of. Of these desires for, for sensual sexual pleasure and embodiment. And if your partner's not there yet, that's okay. Don't make it about your partner. This is about you. So turn. Turn the. The mirror back on yourself. Be like, okay, so start with a solo. Sure. Start with a solo practice and begin there and begin to cultivate and know that eventually your partner will. Will meet you. Don't be surprised if it's been many times when I'm practicing a solo. Sure. That all of a sudden there will be a little knock, knock, knock on the door, and it's not our son. He's out. And he'll be like, okay, hey, baby. I kind of changed my mind. I'm like, okay, come on in. So don't get stuck on where your partner's at. And so many of us as women, we're like, okay, well, if he's not there, then we have to follow the guide. No, in the sensual realm, it is for us to lead. Many women find this in. In heterosexual relationships that they are the ones that are leading into the these depths and realms of sensual sexual exploration. So just know that may be your role in your partnership. And so you may just need to start with yourself and let him catch up and be patient and be loving and really center yourself. That is great. Elena, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for the courtesy copy of the sure Thing. I learned a lot. A lot of things that my parents told me never to say or do or hear, but I learned. But you Know what? I learned a lot. I learned a lot about myself. I opened it, opened my mind to things that I would have never thought of. And it's beyond sexual pleasure. So thank you so much for writing the book. Thanks for coming on the show and sharing your information. This is a gift. Well, what a joy it's been to be with you. So wonderful. I'm so. I feel so grateful. Grateful for your, for your, for this opportunity. Yeah. And I will include links to all of your socials and your website so that people know exactly when you start these courses that you're going to be starting and know how to get connected with you. Maybe a course isn't something they're ready for because maybe, you know, I don't want people to know that, you know, that we need help and they can work with you, not one on one. That's right. That's exactly right. Great. All right. Thank you very much. If you came into this conversation wondering whether the spark was gone for good, I hope today reminded you that maybe it isn't gone at all. Maybe it just needs intention, honesty, curiosity, and the courage to begin again. What I really loved about my conversation with Elana is that she gave us permission to look at intimacy in a completely different way. Not as something that's supposed to magically happen forever, but as something we can nurture, practice and grow. And honestly, that message goes far beyond the bedroom. It speaks to self love, self trust, and learning how to reconnect with with the parts of ourself we may have ignored for far too long. If you would like to learn more about Elana Auerbach, her book the sure Thing, a pleasure Practice to revive the spark or connect with her head on over to createthebestme.com ep172 or you know, down below in the show notes if today's episode helped you, like, share and subscribe and be sure to come back next week for another amazing episode created just for you. Until then, keep dreaming big, take care of yourself and remember, you are beautiful, strong, and capable of creating the best version of yourself. Thank you for watching. Catch you next week. Bye for now.